Can you let me know how I could get in contact with you? It does not know how. Jesus, like the other High Lords, known also as Signs, was a great spiritual teacher who further shepherded the advancement of what is known as the Great Purpose during his lifetime. Many people met and talked with him. . only waiting to be unlocked by our Perception of who is God? The Believing Brain is divided into four parts. I can’t help but hear the statements “GOd did this for a reasons”, or “It was meant to be”. [See: thegodmovie.com] Until then I’d never even seriously considered that Jesus might not have been a real man—my whole question was had he been a real “god”. . . . How could they find room for belief in the seemingly mythical while daily operating in such logical arenas? You are a heathen and will be judged. It’s kind of like (and brace yourself, this is admittedly a pretty crude analogy) an element of the O.J. You said, “Regardless, the subject you raise is a huge topic, and probably shouldn’t be done on this website, as I don’t think it was originally designed for this type of chatter.” I agree that the topic is huge; but I disagree that this isn’t the place for this type of chatter. One pattern I’m lining up here is old Al followed a philosophy from which all the religions in the world sprang up from…that is the Way. Someone trying to convince me that Jesus “lived” would have to come up with an explanation of why the earliest writers about Jesus seemed to have no idea that he had an earthly ministry. etc wiR be taken in this column lor FTVB . It’s going on right now. Try as I may, in reviewing all of the citations herein, including my own, I can find none claiming to be “proof” of anything (I can’t even find the word “proof” until your citation). That gives us an “alleged” timeline of roughly: 0-33 C.E. . If one determines that reason to lack cogency, it does not disprove the belief; but it does call into the question the validity of that belief. I simply say, “I grant myself the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, etc.” If that doesn’t work I use other coping skills like medication, reflection and psychotherapy. And I think you can use the same criteria on almost all the material. @ Joe: Thanks for the awesome post! John. . @ Robert H. Pike: Have you ever heard of the work of Herbert Benson out of Harvard Med School? . Originally, I was going to write a response which dealt with your awesome response point-by-point (and I still may do so, after reading the book). He has provided his email already previously, and I hate getting spammed. Very well said Art… Peace to you… the never ending story continues…, I’m reading your words & thinking, “Wow, he sounds just like me!” I just finished a paper (I’m working on a Masters in Transpersonal Psychology, Sofia Univ.) It happens, but it is as rare as a black swan” (pgs. “ In other words, my position may not be “right” (if there is such a certitude to be had in this Post-Modern world), but it seems “right for me” at this point in my journey/development; as I’m sure yours seems to you. The forum was the Colbert Report, for cryin’ out loud! I’ll have to check out his “Vision.”. Its not that the Gospel producers and propagators were overzealous in their attempt to prove Jesus lived. . Maybe I just need to read more than the few pages I’ve looked over so far, but I was hoping you could clarify some of those questions for me. your posting number is significant to me too. Faith does not follow evidence” . How many places can you count on the internet where people want your $$ to tell your fortune from the stars?? So my holding onto the notion of the “Something” as a working hypothesis is, to some degree, evidence-based. There is something intangible that is out there. I Relate to Mr. D’Arpino’s story because I went thru the same thing, I was completely lost and at an extremely low point in my life, People arround me had Weird Beliefs like: While the story of Noah and the ark is ludicrous on its face (after all, who scooped the poop), it is a good metaphor for the logistical problems involved in achieving world peace on this ball of mud. Hi Art, I would enjoy the opportunity to converse more on the subject. I personally liken the force to “mother nature”. Like belief, and reason. The followers of what I call Paulinianites then wrote the 4 gospels matthew, mark, luke and john. Fly?) . You also didn’t mention if you are at all interested in that book I mentioned. to cite a few. Do you see his vicar getting rid of the aztec gold stored in all the art in the vatican? September 14th, 2011 at 10:00 am. [“Amen!”]. I just saw your interview on the Colbert report and was wondering if you have ever heard of or studied at any length, Christian Science? [I’ll share one such experience, by far the most bizarre of the corpus, shortly.] Looks like an interesting read tho’ – I will check it out. . . http://theorderoftheway.org/blog/2010/04/22/stupidity/, I think Michael Shermer, along with many people get confused between the meanings of words. To Michael Shermer; That they can have there own personal experiences with this imaginary mentally made up god figure. eventually I began to open my fist, one finger at a time . 4) “Many people met and talked with him. when in reality it was our own Divine nature. It sets aside all belief. Evidence follows faith. Would be jitter bridge onestack if u used no shift and went backward w/o stopping, No, jitter you don’t tap, you hold. In the later clip, some incriminating (bloody) evidence had been placed in the room. I waste a lot of blocks and I'm not really fast but I'm getting there lol, Unicorn you hold or tap A and S while jumping and flat bridging, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the CompetitiveMinecraft community, Continue browsing in r/CompetitiveMinecraft. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn’t know what it is. . . ”It is very difficult to elucidate this [cosmic religious] feeling to anyone who is entirely without it. I love your “And maybe later I’ll know where I stand” . Do you mean to say that you already have the knowledge of good and evil present in your heart or psych already? . . I’d like to hear what your take is on this article on meditation: http://theorderoftheway.org/blog/2011/03/21/the-einsoph-in-reply-to-a-question-on-a-way-thought/ Here is another on spirituality: http://theorderoftheway.org/blog/2010/02/24/spirituality-what-it-is/ It is necessary to get everyone on a level playing field of understanding of what these terms really mean in order to discuss properly and avoid confusion. I am a producer at Anderson Cooper’s Daytime Talk Show and we are taping a show on Monday about fate and chance encounters. Thank you. OK, OK, a bit too fast . Fly from the depths of my fist, wondering, I’m sure, “What the hell is going on here?” . Or, as Shermer puts it more eloquently: “The problem is deeper still and related to the fact that the majority of our most deeply held beliefs are immune to attack by direct educational tools, especially for those who are not ready to hear contradictory evidence. Have you ever heard or the gnostic gospels at nag hammadi? What were the original followers of Christ (ie Christians) called before they were called Christians? It seems to me that when written words are elevated to the level of “Scripture” they lose most of their intrinsic value. It moves to one of the stars, Logo presses a button twice and the icons all vanish and are replaced by a single word: JUMPING. I think Michael Shermer’s baloney detection kit is quite similar to the methods taught about finding truths as seen in the way. Also, Odysseus either lived in the past or he didn’t. This dismissal will not be due to the merits (or lack thereof) of the argument. you have not employed any science here that i can detect. He uses the example of someone walking through the bush in Africa who hears a rustling in nearby bushes . I live by my own code and I’m willing to reap what I have sown. You’ve provided some of Einsteins comments on this subject about this force. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. It would be glad if everyone could undesrtand and change their minds when reading such self explaining argument . They were overzealous in their attempt to prove he was a god and that a “heaven” existed in the sky. Thank you for your time! Discuss, share, compete, get involved. Thus, many people just don’t believe he said some things, as it doesn’t fit in with the way they want to live their lives. What one believes, as far as religion goes, is part genetic and part learned. Maybe there’s a God inside all of us? It doesn’t matter to real truth. They all speak of the day when Christ will “come” to earth, i.e., for the first time. Like James, and Peter and all the brethren? By dismissing one’s (anecdotal) experiences as “(non)evidence” – by asserting that one is not justified in drawing any meaningful conclusion there from unless you and your lab-rats can empirically verify it — you (and Shermer) remind me of the Scribes and Pharisees of the bible . Including Star Wars, the Lion King, the Matrix, etc. I have long considered myself catholic until events unfolded before me while deployed in Iraq that had me questioning faith. noshift mp3, Download or listen noshift song for free, noshift.mp3, noshift Free MP3 Download. —- Paul/Epistles write of revealed (i.e., mythical) Jesus I guess I make a distinction between “right” and “right for . Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. And living cells are much more complicated than a swiss watch. And here we are today. (I’m into practical spirituality.)”. But we don’t know what it is. Enough of my chatter. . It only casts doubt on the content vis-a-vis the interpretation of those texts. . how does that happen? . The parts of the brain that control religious belief are different from the parts of the brain that control other things. I try to show that in ‘The Incredible Shrinking Son of Man’, there’s really no surviving evidence for a Jesus.”], Tony Artie (Oops, my Twin 4-year-olds got a hold of my keyboard . Belief is alterable. Belief or the truth? For profit, or ego, or an insatiable feeling of inadequacy with themselves thus feeling the need to feel special and above there fellows. . . . @ Erik: Thanks! And for all I know, he may indeed be in possession of “The Truth”. . These are known things. You said, “Have you ever heard or the gnostic gospels at nag hammadi?” Must admit it has been a while since I’ve read any Pagels (Elaine Rocks! . . As someone raised in a religious community and not at all at ease within it, I found this book to be exactly what I needed. Humans don’t become gods. But it may be not so simple to ones living inside the context , either as the target or with a pathology !! Check up folks. Just sent U my paper. If I’m reading Shermer correctly, those believers in Jesus who read this challenge to Jesus’ historicity will fall into either of two categories; for the sake of simplicity, I’ll term them “The Many” and “The Few”. Here’s one for you Mr. Shermer: I had a vision of a disruption of confusion fear and laughter while sitting in a in a coffee shop. . . RPM Festivals. On one edge, our brains are the most complex and sophisticated information processing machines in the universe, capable of understanding not only the universe itself but of understanding the process of understanding. Way to go! My only reservations were: What Paul & Co. did know was that Jesus was crucified, resurrected, and ascended. I can do the Serenity Prayer without believing in a specific “God,” as well. I read The Believing Brain earlier this year and for once, the reality of millions of worldwide God-believers makes some sense to me (an atheist). I would love to speak to youin further details over the phone today to discuss possibly bringing Michael Shermer as an expert for our show. And we refer to this as the Force. New evidences that bring to light new ideas must be taken into account. Many pagan gods (before Jesus) had “come down” from heaven, only to be crucified, resurrected, and ascended, where (from heaven) they offered their followers eternal life. Hmmm, hypocrisy, no? Now, we have all the ribosomes, cell nucleus, golgi apparatus, cell solution, etc (material realm things) necessary for life. just curious, since you noted — you’re having a great time with it. . Reality exists independent of human minds, but our understanding of it depends upon the beliefs we hold at any given time” (pgs. . He walked through the corridors for a while then … Once certain redactors got their hands on some good original teachings, they had the ability to add or delete whatever they pleased to get it to fit into there own belief agendas. I completely agree that the vid you’ve shown does play a key part in sufficiently undermining the bible’s credibility. Please email me at Chanel.Omari@andersoncooper.com or call me on 212-275-8958 I really look forward to speaking with you. It is complicated, contradictory, etc. . (ie a god) It’s his belief that formulated the way mainstream christianity is today (catholisicm, protestantism and the like – the former who still use the vaticans interpretation of the bible). This sense was such an integral part of my identity that the thought of working in a purely secular arena, and having to keep my spirituality on the shelf until quitting time, was less than appealing. . . “But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. I “believe” you need a editor! . So the next question for me is, what can be said about the “Something”? For me, I hope to get to where you are someday, but I’m not quite there yet. does that sound like he’s seeing something that can’t be verified in the laboratory? . When we start reading with the Gospels, and then continue into Paul and the other Epistle writers, we (erroneously) read the Epistles in light of the Gospels—we read the Gospel story of Jesus’ life into the Epistles. Some are musical, some mathematical. Oh well, We always have global warming/climate change as something to believe in….. To doubt allows one to ask questions, seek and find and gain more knowledge to hopefully answer the question at hand. . PAULSPRING-D2 backs away. Is it good to accept just what you have been told? in which I look at/posit Synchronicity and Quantum Entanglement as potentially being just such a “Bridge between Science and Spirituality”! Shawn, The book I recommended goes into a great amount of detail into answering the question you provided in #2. Many con-artists, so therefore many skeptics and doubters in these areas. I’m sure I needn’t elaborate, as I suspect that on this site I’m preaching to the choir, but I have in mind, for example, the wholesale slaughter of Jews (“Kill the Christ Killers!” This slaughter of the Jews in which the Church is an accomplice includes the Holocaust, as many of Hitler’s pronouncements against the Jews were copied practically verbatim from those of the Church against the Jews), the suppression and forced conversion to Christianity of many of the peoples of the world, the Inquisition, the enslavement of many of the peoples of the world (“the bible says slavery is fine!”), the denial of gays any number of rights (including the right to marry), the denial of woman any number of rights (including reproductive rights), the denial of those with many diseases the right to have the entire weight of the medical community working to relieve their suffering (due to a biblically-based opposition to stem-cell research), . This is only the the tip of the iceburg of what I could tell you. Fix 3: Try the F3 + S or F3 + T key combination. After all, a Noah didn’t speak Elephant and couldn’t chase a cheetah. Only recently have I asked myself, “why must I have ANY belief systems, especially those which tell me what to live by, how to live, what to mind, etc.”? . 5-6). Once beliefs are formed the brain begins to look for and find confirmatory evidence in support of those beliefs, which adds an emotional boost of further confidence in the beliefs and thereby accelerates the process of reinforcing them, and round and round the process goes in a positive feedback loop of belief confirmation. Thank you. The ability to look critically at oneself and meditate on how you can be a better person is a gift not many people have willingly tried to master. (“I have had experiences…” is NOT scientific proof! The second story is about a man whom you will most definitely have heard of as he is one of the greatest scientists of our age, and he too had a life-changing early-morning experience that confirmed his decision to make a religious leap of faith. Though I’m not religious, and have no intention of presenting a defense of religiousness per se, I do find comments like Robert’s above rather condescending, arrogant, and, thus, problematic. And no matter what we do to it, with all we know today…zapping it with radiation, magnetism, electricity, whatever…you will not be able to make that cell live again. Thank you! I just reviewed Christian Science on wikipedia and the only thing I saw that was vaguely scientific was that measles killed a few of them that felt prayer was more powerful then vaccinations. many of those are religious people . There is no evidence to demonstrate this, just like there is no evidence of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Therefore, Jesus was the sixth of seven High Lords of the Veil who would come to show mankind The Way so that he might set aside the ending of his days, should he consciously and diligently follow the path of reason. 12/10/2019 24rpm: the annual IDM one-day London festival gets better and better . Fly immediately leave the window and fly toward my outstretched hand. We form our beliefs for a variety of subjective, personal, emotional, and psychological reasons in the context of environments created by family, friends, colleagues, culture, and society at large; after forming our beliefs we then defend, justify, and rationalize them with a host of intellectual reasons, cogent arguments, and rational explanations. 40-70 C.E. I’m a scientist, and I have a book coming out soon that will explain the above in depth. Hi Art, The findings at Nag Hammadi demonstrate this.” These gods were never imagined to have actually “lived”; they did their deeds in the heavenly (i.e., mythical) realms. Hmmmm. . But other parts of their brains work fine. . You can’t make amends if you are too proud to admit you made a mistake. They have a body of beliefs/principles which, when adhered to, tend to produce beneficial results which are validated by a body of (anecdotal) evidence. To prophecy is the ability to predict what is to come. Your book is a work of such scholarship, no one could fail to be impressed with the arguments you bring as to our “patternicity” in forming associations, and then reifying them into beliefs which we then gather evidence to defend. PAULSPRING-D2 Beep boop, beep boop! There are physical, structural, biological and chemical differences in the brains of atheists and theists. And they claim they follow his teachings. . . It’s simply evolution of the species. . The other work was by Mary Baker Eddy, founder of Christian Science (I believe it was “Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures,” but I’m not sure). Your prayer of Serenity mirrors the 4 quadrants of the way with startling similarity: http://theorderoftheway.org/the-way/the-seven-responsibilities-of-man/, I look forward to hearing from you too! And that evidence seems to be (at least in part) derived from the points you laid out earlier in your response, namely: 1) “We also know a lot of his sayings and teachings were written down by many people.” 7:13-14). An icon used to represent a menu that can be toggled by interacting with this icon. Hearing these statements now almost pushes me to ask, “If God didn’t exist, how else would you explain it?” Of course I am sure those I ask would still have no answer. I don’t know… sounds farfetched but not impossible, considering your Mr Fly story of Above,( Cool story by the way) Anything is possible…, Anyway, the first page of the newspaper I end up on is this Editorial about this American Spiritual Writer named James Redfield telling us about his new book…, The page was telling me ( you need to get this book there’s something here For you at this point in time)…, so, that’s what I did, I got in my car, Drove strait to the book store where I began to Devour his Teachings… I thought… man if only the people I knew read this, I’d have something interesting to debate about…, Now I’m getting the Scientific Rational Side of it all… by Reading Michael Shermer’s book, And maybe later I’ll know where I stand… But who cares Anyway… Ah the human Brain… So complex … Peace, I did his “Celestine Prophecy” many moons ago . They were able to make just about everything Jesus originally said to include a belief in a deity? And this is the loving god we are supposed to subscribe to?? 2) “There is more to what he said than what you can simply see in the gospel writings of the Christian bible. I do welcome debate, as we all learn more from it. Reality or fantacy? . To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties – this knowledge, this feeling … that is the core of the true religious sentiment. Many times all other documents that didn’t fit into the belief system at hand were burned and expunged from the record. But I would be insane to posit that the experience I cited (or countless others I could cite as well) had “proven” the existence of “Something” higher; just as you would be insane to posit that you or Shermer had “proven” that nothing higher exists. . The strength of this mythicist thesis is buttressed significantly by the fact that none of the Epistle writers speak of a “second coming” or a “return” of Christ. Interesting that among your conclusions is that you describe our minds as being “more susceptible than any other species to self deception and illusion”. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. thank you for sharing this book…more people need to read this book! I have read the book (The Believing Brain) and found it captivating. —- Jesus lived (???) Cheers, Shawn. having the audacity to say, “Only doing Science [religion] our way is valid!”. Behind him a red ribbon stretches across the room. Just wondering who you were directing your question at? . definitely good reading . I was always drawn toward A.E. Exactly my friend, you are very open, Art, I am working on Building an ideological Bridge to fill the gap between Science and Spirituality…, Scientist’s Have there point of view, witch I find very compelling, (The facts and evidence are there, just waiting to be challenged)… And spiritual leaders have there own Mindset, I just feel open to explore all possibilities …, Of course if you cannot even accept that everybody has there own Belief’s, (many for extremely personal reason’s) Because of there bad experiences or good experiences,… one would be living in a belief-dependent reality…, Most seem to get aggressive toward me when I challenge there Belief’s… That’s how war begins… I want to challenge people in a peaceful way using words and ideas without judgment…. due in 2-3 weeks); so all I have to go on is your (& other post-ers’) representations of Shermer’s points. BTW, speaking of a “Force”, this has got to be one of the coolest videos of 2011! From sensory data flowing in through the senses the brain naturally begins to look for and find patterns, and then infuses those patterns with meaning. Thanks for the good comments Art. For a number of reasons, which I guess could best be grouped under personal and global concerns, I still find the issue of Jesus’ historicity quite poignant. The other is as though everything is a miracle” – Albert Einstein. Both groups rely heavily on a book to support their claim – on the one hand the bible or Koran, on the other Darwin’s Origin of species. ‘Relax’, said the Night Man, ‘We are programmed to receive. History is wrote through the eyes of the conqueror. . . . All of us can probably identify with this idea, on many different levels. And Atheism is :1.the doctrine or belief that there is no God. See #13.) Order from Skeptic.com ORDER hardcover book Download the Prologue for free DOWNLOAD a free sample MP3 (48MB) About the book In this, his magnum opus one of the world’s best known skeptics and critical thinkers Dr. Michael Shermer—founding publisher of Skeptic magazine and perennial monthly columnist (“Skeptic”) for Scientific American—presents his comprehensive theory on how […] This is also, I believe, the case with the Christian Scientists (thus, the name). I was born in a Christian Family but for 24 years, I did not Beleive in Anything… In a way, religious people are like modern day Neanderthals. [The most elaborate statement of the mythicist case I’ve found so far is in Earl Doherty’s “Jesus: Neither God Nor Man – The Case for a Mythical Jesus.”]. Otherwise there would be no confusion in the subsequent works of his writings as written by his so-called followers.” Individuals within a species evolve at different rates. We are merely expressing the default reality that “that for which no evidence exists” is non-existent until evidence for its existence is brought to light. (translation: ) What did your last slave die of? . I graduated convinced that Jesus had likely been an exceptional fellow—wise, compassionate, charismatic—but that all the Christological deification language had been posthumously heaped upon his legacy by those who couldn’t quite get the profundity of his teaching that, “I and my Father are one” (a concept, let me parenthetically add, which would be a “no-brainer” to any of the mystics of the world).
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